On the pushback against Unity

Well, we see today on MyDD something of a pushback against the idea of Democratic unity in this coming election.

To some degree, the initial split was caused by a polarization: Clinton supporters were damn sure that she was the best candidate, and thought the race validated that assertion. Obama supporters were damn sure that he was the best candidate, and thought the race validated that assertion.

Now, we have a different polarization: those who think that unity is the best course, and whose who do not want to embrace it.

The solution to this new split isn't going to be found because one side is "right." Even if unity supporters are "right," it will not matter unless you can bring everyone in behind the idea of unity. If those who want to disengage are "right," than the nomination shouldn't have gone to Obama, but it won't matter unless they can convince the super-delegates of that.

I don't care how right you think you are.

If you, an Obama supporter, personally insulted Clinton supporters ONCE, and you're now tripping over yourself trying to be nice, I can understand how someone sees your kindness as false.

If you, a Clinton supporter, personally insulted Obama supporters ONCE, I can see how an Obama supporter may not completely trust you.

The great fallacy of elections is that the person best for the job wins. That's not true, nor will it ever be true.

The winner is the person who can convince the most people that they are the best for the job. (If you think Clinton was this person, shoot me an e-mail and we'll talk)

Even if unity is the best course now, your task isn't to browbeat everyone here onto that course. Your task is to make it possible for them to do so. I recently sent an e-mail to Larry Johnson, which read in part:

Barack Obama is shrewd. He is conniving. His image doesn't match how much of a conventional politician he is. He chose not to defend Bill Clinton from racist allegations. He welcomed an overwhelming, race-related black vote. He had some members of the media in the tank. He was wrong on Selma and on his Great Uncle. He chose not to heavily invest in Appalachia. He does have strong relations with lobbyists. He did knowingly sit through harmful sermons on race.

Bill Clinton is not a racist. Hillary Clinton is not evil. The media did have sexist commentary. The market did have sexism. This sexism cost Clinton votes. Hilary Clinton would be a stronger candidate in an election today than Obama.

The message is truthful, but it doesn't represent all of my feelings about Obama; I have supported him for over a year now. Instead, my message was written for Larry Johnson, and it worked; Johnson was very respectful and reasonable in his messages back to me.

Your task, unity supporters, is to convince others that unity is best now, not to repeat the reasons you believe it is. People are hurt, angry, upset, and annoyed. If they stay this way, it doesn't matter how wrong you might theink they were to hold that opinion.

What will matter is that you didn't turn them around.

It is possible, I promise you, and I've done it more than once. You thought it was self-evident that we should have elected Gore and Kerry, but America didn't. If you treat unity the same way, relying on it's "self-evidence," then you squander the strong supporters of Clinton who can do us so much good.

Unity ain't cheap.



Display:


Re: On the pushback against Unity (2.00 / 2)

I do not perceive a pushback against Unity, rather a call for it, and that translates into a unity ticket.


by phoenixdreamz on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:46:47 PM EST

Re: On the pushback against Unity (2.00 / 1)

True; however, I am referring to Unity among supporters. The unity that you refer to is more akin to a marriage.


by Falsehood on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:54:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Please don't misrepresent discussion as 'disunity! (none / 0)

Please don't misrepresent discussion about issues as 'disunity'. I have seen that over and over again, and it is infuriating. Discussion is a sign of ENGAGEMENT. It means that a democracy is functioning.

Discussion, including debate on any and all issues is essential to the functioning of any democracy.

Its our strength. "Out of many, one" - I think that its why America has survived for so long.

Its our ability to LEARN and GROW that keeps us evolving.

Its especially important for a party that claims to represent the democracy side of the democracy/oligarchy dichotomy. In other words, that means Democrats debate, Democrats DECIDE, they do not have things decided FOR them. (That is oligarchy, ie, Republicanism - as described in Platos Republic, etc. Rule by an  elite.)

Also, in addition to being essential to the continued existence of democracy, debate on the issues is a way of helping people become informed on them.

These issues effect peoples lives. Democrats need to be able to differentiate ourselves from Republicans, which means taking positions on issues that are important to people, even if those positions may not please everybody.

Otherwise, we won't be able to get out the vote.


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 05:00:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That message is your opinion. (none / 0)

That does not make it the truth.

The only question that appears to be relevant is what policies do you want going forward. Do you want Bush's or something more progressive?  


The plural of anecdote is not data.
by LiberalDebunker on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:48:33 PM EST

Re: That message is your opinion. (2.00 / 1)

My point is that asking that question ignores the anger and hurt that many feel. I don't think it'll be easy to win them over with that question.


by Falsehood on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:55:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That message is your opinion. (none / 0)

Welll I don't get the "hurt" part. Candidates lose. That's democracy. My candidate lost and I wasn't hurt in the slightest.

It's not about me though. It's about my country.


The plural of anecdote is not data.
by LiberalDebunker on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:58:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Candidates can lose but issues remain important (2.00 / 1)

Wedding oneself to a given candidate makes you vulnerable.

If people express loyalty to issues, and vote for candidates who address them - with the understanding that they are voting on the issues, then I think that we can avoid some traps that might otherwise ensnare us!


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 05:10:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On the pushback against Unity (none / 0)

I guess I support the intent of this diary, though I do question the accuracy of your email to Larry Johnson and whether such a message would actually convince anyone to join up or further antagonize others.


by rfahey22 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:51:44 PM EST

Re: On the pushback against Unity (none / 0)

You mean the accuracy of what I said?

To be sure; it's a targeted message. I think we lose something if we fails to acknowledge what is demonstratively true.


by Falsehood on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:56:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On the pushback against Unity (none / 0)

What part of the message is demonstrably true rather than merely your opinion?


The plural of anecdote is not data.
by LiberalDebunker on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:57:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On the pushback against Unity (none / 0)

They are my opinion; and I believe I can back them up. do you have a specific complaint?


by Falsehood on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 05:56:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On the pushback against Unity (2.00 / 3)

I agree.  The email is full of inaccuracies and will serve to divide, reprinted here.  

Further, there isn't a thing Obama supporters can do to bring Hillary supporters into the fold now.  All we can do is work hard for our candidate, create buzz and hopefully that energy brings a few people around.  The real motivation will come from Obama himself.  His positions, his appointments, his comments, his strategy.  The hurt people feel on the Clinton side can only be healed by time.  

The miniscule number of voters who actually participate in these forums on the internet are, frankly, irrelevant when it comes to such things.  99% of the voters out there are going to make their minds up based on the debates, party affiliation, TV and radio commercials, and TV interviews / news coverage.  The 1% who participate here may hold a grudge because someone was mean to them but I doubt it when the chips are down.

That isn't to say that this or other internet communities aren't important.  Just not as to unity,really.  What Hillary said yesterday will turn millions while this blog post may impact one or two people.  More than likely if it's two, one will join the fold and another will leave it based on the negativity in that email.

So, I think, the point is we just have to chill out and be cool to each other at this point.  Because this is our community.  Not because it's going to sway massive numbers of votes one way or the other.  Obama will win or lose the same way those who came before him did.


Let's elect a Dem President!
by SpanishFly on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:12:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thats not true.. (none / 0)

If Obama addresses issues of importance to Clinton supporters in a responsible way, and indicates that he will aggressively work to bring about the kinds of things that many supported Hillary for, against him, like universal healthcare, I think many could be brought around.

What is he afraid of? Why try to avoid such an important issue?

But Obama would have to COMMIT, something that he often tries to avoid.

He is sort of Mr. All Things To All People right now, but in my opinion, that won't fly in the GE.


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 05:14:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thats not true.. (none / 0)

It remains to be seen what Obama will run on in a general election campaign. I think his campaign is busy trying to figure out the best way to make you happy right now. I definitely think you are right that he will ultimately win over doubters through policy, not character.

I wish that we could all stop insults, though. I don't think they're productive in the slightest. There is nothing productive that can be said in response to statements like yours that essentially say (albeit said in a nicer way) that Obama has no backbone and no substance. That is a belief, not a point of discussion, and to present it as such is deceptive. Because you aren't looking to discuss it, only to have it validated.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 05:37:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On the pushback against Unity (2.00 / 2)

It's a really small crowd that is bitter over this. Most of them will come around.  A few will not, and that can't be helped.


by Drummond on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:07:24 PM EST

Re: On the pushback against Unity (2.00 / 1)

I agree...the "Democrats for McCain" crowd seems large in the blogosphere, but in the real world most people will vote their beliefs.

That aside, this is a great diary. I am an Obama supporter and, looking back, did get caught up in the heat of the battle and said things that aren't grounded in reality.

As Senator Clinton said on Saturday (paraphrasing), there is way too much at stake to allow another 4 years of having a Republican in the White House.


by GrahamCracker on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:24:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I said yesterday... (none / 0)

if Obama supporters want to talk up unity why do most of them cringe at the thought of having her on the ticket?  That's the only way and as usual it's as plain as the nose on your faces...that makes it hard to understand I guess.


by handsomegent on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:24:55 PM EST

Re: I said yesterday... (none / 0)

I guess many of us don't agree it's that simple.  And if you've read the posts about this topic, you've seen the logic provided on that subject so there isn't any reason to debate it here again.


Let's elect a Dem President!
by SpanishFly on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:31:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I said yesterday... (none / 0)

What logic, it's scorn pure and simple, with a extra dash of salt rubbed into the wounds.


by handsomegent on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:40:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I said yesterday... (none / 0)

there has been a mixture of both...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:45:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I said yesterday... (2.00 / 1)

I don't think they cringe so much at the idea of having her on the ticket so much as they cringe at the oft repeated refrain that it's "the only way" he can win.

They see him as a strong candidate, so saying that he needs her to win will not resonate.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:44:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I said yesterday... (none / 0)

Because they ran on such completely different concepts. They would be in constant disagreement and would have serious difficulty getting a singular message across. The fact is that Obama fit much better on a Clinton ticket than she fits on his.

That said, if he picked her, I'd still vote for him.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 05:39:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I said yesterday... (none / 0)

Let's face the fact that the Obama supporters by and large think Hillary doesn't conform to the "purity" of Obama.  She's too "political" for him (as if he isn't himself).


by handsomegent on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 06:49:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

uhh, really? (none / 0)

"He welcomed an overwhelming, race-related black vote." ?

So...he should have rejected votes? He's a bad guy because black people voted for him, and he didn't denounce them?

There are clearly some criticisms, that would never have even occurred to me. Or am I misinterpreting the message to LJ as true, when it's actually snark?

Confused =(


by Neef on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 05:54:16 PM EST


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